tom seaver, mechanics

Is all of this true of Tim Lincecum? The arguement that he was held back…or hindered by anything just holds no water at all. He walked 112 but allowed only 121 hits. In fact, he did. is it because of his very good followthroguh phase? Lincecum is everyone’s favorite example of powerful mechanics, but I’ve heard so many different opinions on how he does it, He has great balance He’s a natural freak, He has great hip/shoulder separation He has a long stride built up from great momentum. 28 In recent years there has been a great deal of interest in finding out just what these mechanics encompass and how they relate to skill levels, velocity on the pitch, and injuries. The Official video page of Major League Baseball with the latest highlights, recaps, Statcast and interviews. The point that palo20 makes that “Every “guru” or expert can make blanket generic statements either because they don’t know better, or they’re trying to spin things to benefit their own product” is right on in my oppinion. Ya think? 0000001874 00000 n Every “guru” or expert can make blanket generic statements either because they don’t know better, or they’re trying to spin things to benefit their own product. h�&��/�47������p�1���.�T��[4�'�^�o�a�`,g�cv`���.�O�@� ��� ?c�f�Y �d ChrisOLeary.com: ChrisOLeary.com > BUY > Pitching > Proper Pitching Mechanics: Proper Pitching Mechanics, up until 15 years ago or so, was understood to refer to those movements that allowed pitchers to move like Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver; to throw hard, but with control and command, while not taking stupid risks. 194 0 obj <> endobj or ??>. Focus on the task at hand, unproductive ques are both a waste of time and potentially detrimental…Look how much time you spend focused on it Hydejing…instead of positively impacting your mechanics with proper adjustments based on feedback you are risking getting this thought to completely dominate the mentality of your delivery. 0000000016 00000 n Brent Pourciau. What if changing your arm action to become “safer” lost you 5 mph? I should have used the tongue in cheek emoticon. Tom Seaver was so good at recording strikeouts, he could write the book on it. He has a quick arm 0000002108 00000 n 0 �d��k˖k|A�z�c��6E9ş�V���� p�\8ZS��6��Kk�; His mechanics were similar to Seaver's; as he started to move forward off the mound, his arm was already cocked and the ball just about his head. 0000002935 00000 n startxref Completely naturally. It’s a sad but true sentiment you need to keep in mind when watching. Probably (except for Mitch’s comments). Tom Seaver has a very low front leg standing, and very good followthrough phase which helps him to reduce the risk of getting injury ? Tom Seaver, appropriately known as “Tom Terrific” and “The Franchise” was the driving force that altered the history of a franchise and led The Miracle Mets from annual cellar dwellers (AKA “lovable losers”) to a captivating and unforgettable World Series title in 1969. lol :roll: IN regards to the inverted “L” and “W” there is no scientific proof that they are prone to injury. :allgood: by comparing Tom Seaver, with other pitchers who also have those Inverted L sign, there is only one thing that Tom Seaver is different from, he has a very flat back and followthroguh phase also when he is at release point, his front leg is very low, If it is Ted…good one It is obvious that whomever coined these terms had no clue about the physics of velocity focused pitching mechanics. what Leiter also say is that, show the ball to 2nd base or CF which is not good, i also totally agreed with. What the heck was Mitch looking at? ***** Book. Noté /5. 0000001040 00000 n He had been suffering from acute dementia. Hall of Fame pitcher Tom Seaver is the acknowledged master of both the psychology and the technique of making a living at the corners of the plate. 1st chance HOF…I mean come on just how was he held down back or what ever, he broke in, in the 60’s and he threw into the mid 80’s what is the problem??? �5�:jOY�L�Vq��q�q�|#0OJ\���Ȁ-�N����O��N�k�� N�60��'��O�j����!-���|6?��^n���/�CȎ��2gW��37��7�����R�e?��z}�� ��3?��N���|V/�`���Z�ܸ��Ӊn=Le�� ll�klN>�� o%'�9�.� �A��. It was sad really. He produces great torque But with the Reds last season, he was 5-13 with a 5.50 e.r.a. Who wouldnt? He had to rely on his pin point control and devastating curve ball to dominate that day. Cookie cutter ideas only work in cookie production. By Dan Shaughnessy Globe Columnist, Updated September 3, 2020, 12:14 p.m. Tom Seaver was acquired in June 1986 by the Red Sox and imparted … but he does not has any shouder injury ?? Tom Seaver has yet to see the most touted of the Mets’ young pitchers: Dwight Gooden, a right-hander who will be 19 years old in two weeks. Winkler's mechanics are so different from what I call Dominant & Durable pitching mechanics, that I put together the picture above to try to make the difference clear. The reason you are getting challenged in the way you are is two-fold, first you are making dogmatic statements, Leiter also say is that, show the ball to 2nd base or CF which is not good, Is just one amongst many…here you will always be challenged for that, so be prepared to defend the dogma…. What could he have been? Similarly, if you look at the pitching mechanics of Tom Seaver, you'll see that his pitching arm is UP when his shoulders start rotating. Published in 1984, Seaver’s The Art of the Pitching detailed techniques and mechanics behind throwing a perfect pitch. lets look at what professional say about mechanics, 08.28.09: MLB Tonight compares the mechanics of starting pitchers CC Sabathia and Tim Lincecum, (personally i don’t really like this one because it does not explain much about mechanics), well, this one is quite interesting Worked for him but problematic because it lowers the Release Point and may limit hip and shoulder rotation. I wonder if our friend from Melbourne has ever seen Mitch Williams’ mechanics…I wonder if they were considered injurious…or bad :shock: this is what i prefer and also what i like about pendulum arm swing , which is swing from side and as a result when the ball is raise up, the elbw will not higher than shouder, and therefore, there is a small chance for inverted L to occour. I say “velocity focused” because the two pitchers who are used to illustrate these styles of pitching are Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. don’t left up with elbow first, because many players will have this motion then resulted an inverted L or even V, You can also argue that there are other players in MLB who also start with elbow first but don’t have inverted L such as, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Tim Lincecum, etc…just to name a few ( that is why he said , are these guy pitcher in the big league ? I first noticed Daniel Winkler's pitching mechanics a year ago. And why did he break? I think it’s especially true when we put all of our beliefs in some guru. Probably (except for Mitch’s comments)[/quote] It was sad really. This is “the problem” with O’Leary’s pose phobic method of “analysis”. :roll: Every “guru” or expert can make blanket generic statements either because they don’t know better, or they’re trying to spin things to benefit their own product. It was sad really. Ask yourself this question; “What is the goal”? No science as it’s basis, just some guy looking at pictures and saying it is so…it is not. 0000001174 00000 n (like Roy Oswalt,Roger clemens, clayton kershaw, many more etc). He is one of the best ever. Two Rangers starters, C.J. The game long lasts for19 years, i.e., 1967 to 1986. -----Well-said, jwest…I agree with you’re saying here and I have also been there myself, more times than once. trailer [quote=“Ted”]Seaver’s mechanics did haunt him his whole career. Hell, the Edmonton Oilers won a Stanley Cup without Wayne Gretzky. Why so many pitchers in MLB have inverted L or v problem and they all have injury ??? yes …etc). ��L�N�i��"6�����'^��\��Qﶸv�H�����9���ge.��9��P�ag������ШЬ���`#%Y���-��R�%��I��QTY�k�W�JKR��8V%���`�ܚ��*LZ8���1� My point is, if in the twilight of your career you can throw upwards of 98 mph with excellent control as well as last for 20 years, you don’t have mechanical issues. Pitching mechanics also explains the struggles of hard-throwing, but frequently-injured, pitchers like Matt Harvey, Alex Reyes, and Mark Prior, who were betrayed by their pitching mechanics. I will say he is a member of my “All World Mullet Squad”…I mean just how could he miss? You could tell he had more in him, if only someone could have helped him bring it out. Justin Verlander. Is it to make it to the bigs and stay there for as long as possible? http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080925&content_id=3546282&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym. Learn more about this flawed approach which is a very poor explanation of his style of pitching. %%EOF Achetez neuf ou d'occasion Knee bent 90-100 degrees at the Release Point. I watched him on TV in the early eighties. Too often when a pitcher is unable to reach a simple goal of being able to throw a ball 90 MPH even when he is doing exactly as some guru tells him he should; he believes the fault is with him instead of the fault being with the advice of the guru. Nolan Ryan, Dan Winkler, and Tom Seaver. That was the beginning of the end. Tom Seaver . Despite being an All-City basketball player, he hoped to play baseball in college. Here’s the vid that went with the piece…300 game winner held back by being the best ever on a team…oh Ted you just can’t revise history without proof. Interesting…just out of curiousity what do these videos tell you Hydejing? Pitching mechanics is the answer to the question of where the Nolan Ryan's and Tom Seaver's have gone, as well as Justin Verlander's recent injury problems. :oops: duhhh on me :lol: I’m sorry JD. MQC�ƃ�Z%X�a'��E/�T He had to rely on his pin point control and devastating curve ball to dominate that day. He was off to a spectacular start in 1969, with a 13-3 record going into the big game against the Cubs. Tom Seaver saluted former teammate Nolan Ryan for smashing the glass ceiling on pitch counts and forcing his Texas Rangers starters to pitch longer into games. It’s well worth your time to watch Seaver conduct what is likely to be the final interview of his life. Why did Justin Verlander have some of the best pitching mechanics? O ver his 16 seasons, Tom Seaver has a 261-156 record with a 2.68 earned run average. Between the comments of the three “analysts” on the second video clip, every possible conclusion can be arrived at. xref Saying don’t do the inverted x, y or z is immaterial to the training, particularly if it isn’t even presented. Mitch Williams was the guy with black hair in the first vid…he was known far and wide as the real “Wild Thing”, he was one of the top closers in baseball, for the Cubs and Phillies until Joe Carter took him deep to end a world series and then the fans of Philidelphia placed so many threats on his life that he retired from the game and moved back to Taxas to raise steers… :shock: If you are going to use someone as an example of mechanics…I would think that he would be…shall we say…the very hardest to reproduce…I’d also suggest that if you want credability for the things you are posting, it may help to understand who it is you use as example. My humor can be a little too obtuse sometimes. The baseball community continues to mourn the loss of Hall of Fame pitcher Tom Seaver, who died Monday at the age of 75, leaving behind a legacy that will long outlast his time on the diamond. I think it’s especially true when we put all of our beliefs in some guru. He had reasons - … [quote]Why so many pitchers in MLB have inverted L or v problem and they all have injury ??? And I would get tennis balls and I would try to do what he did. So much promise just wasted by the inverted L. Hopefully someone will fix Lincecum before its too late. JD is right, the inverted L is just a theory. And you are acting as a parrot for Chris O’Leary’s speculation, you are not the first, you are among a few, the ones we see here are generally your age and intelligent thoughtful guys. but anyway this is forum and free speaking, so i use the word ‘‘guess’’… Especially since pitchers I have known who have tried them believe that they feel more discomfort or tightness in their shoulder when they attempt them. You could tell he had more in him, if only someone could have helped him bring it out. He had to rely on his pin point control and devastating curve ball to dominate that day. endstream endobj 195 0 obj<> endobj 196 0 obj<> endobj 197 0 obj<>/Font<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text]/ExtGState<>>> endobj 198 0 obj<> endobj 199 0 obj[/ICCBased 205 0 R] endobj 200 0 obj<> endobj 201 0 obj<> endobj 202 0 obj<>stream Tom Seaver was so good at recording strikeouts, he could write the book on it. 0000001300 00000 n And well. I think Nyman used to say something along the lines of “you can only see what you’re looking for.” Basically, 3 different people can look at video and see 3 completely different things. Seaver lived up to his billing, going 16-13 in 1967 with a 2.76 ERA and 16-12 in 1968 with a 2.20 ERA. “The competition, the actual pitching of each game has given me more joy than the numbers,” Seaver … Because he moved like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, and the other greats of the past. That was the beginning of the end. Unfortunately a lot, and I mean A LOT of people will put a lot of weight behind what these guys say. H�|U�n�@}�W�r�Ԧ���P��zC-E R�����_2�'v�XV���3gό�g�����X�c�L�x[p&�� He attended Fresno High School and was a pitcher for the school's baseball team. His inverted L became so disruptive that eventually he suffered a knee injury. Little or no productive development can be expected by it. It’s awful easy to see exactly what he’s saying is happening instead of what exactly IS happening. No one should follow ANY guru blindly and believe everything they say as gospel. He gave it to me and he said, “if you want to learn how to pitch with the perfect mechanics, and you want to know how you’re supposed to do it, put this up above your bed and look at that every night.” So I put these pictures up above my bed, and it’s Tom Seaver. Again no proof just incidental it could be just that these pitchers were not used to that arm action. So much promise just wasted by the inverted L. Hopefully someone will fix Lincecum before its too late.[/quote]. Retrouvez Art of Pitching et des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr. [quote=“laflippin”]re: “…what do these videos tell you Hydejing?”, As an alternative to extracting useful content from entertainment sound-bytes of this sort, a person might as well look for profound, specific guidance from his daily horoscope.[/quote]. You could tell he had more in him, if only someone could have helped him bring it out. [/quote] Meeting Seaver. 0000001838 00000 n Tom Seaver was so good at recording strikeouts, he could write the book on it. You have some of the best computer skills of that group but still, when it all comes down to it, the things you say are diametrically opposite of how to train a pitcher. These both were hard throwing pitchers but they had more things in common than not. He doesn’t move down the mound until his leg reaches maximum height. 0000003696 00000 n But he needs to work on mechanics on his upper left side. re: “…what do these videos tell you Hydejing?”. Tom Seaver — "Tom Terrific” — passed away Wednesday at the age of 75. Tom Seaver is 40 years old and remains one of the better pitchers in baseball, an extraordinary feat of consistency and effectiveness, considering that he … As JD said, I’ll “Inverted W” all day if it gets me to the bigs. is it because of his very good followthroguh phase? <<0BCB3C8E5D187242B83ADD3359D7ECE2>]>> Now stop. or ??>[/quote]. showing a better video clip of tom seaver from the 1969 world series..he's dominant-- He has played 20 seasons in Major League Baseball (MLB) for the New York Mets, Chicago White Sox, Boston Red Sox, and Cincinnati Reds. I am with you on Seaver though. I don’t think anything tangible came out of the Mitch Williams “expert” video. One thing I notice that you didn’t mention about what Lieter said was that there is a world of variation and that guys who he thought had “bad” mechs were in the bigs. You take what is presented, you assess what is there and you work through adjustments (Incremental in nature and closely monitered by you) to make it the most efficient delivery or whatever that you train. Poor Tom…beat my Cubbies like a pinyata at a hyper-active kids b-day party :shock: I used to hate watching him kick their butts…and just to throw fire on the gas…Tommy T knew his stuff was best when his back leg knee got all dirty from getting so low. Really, its one of the saddest stories in sports. 0000006366 00000 n because he is ‘’ some guy’’ talking about inverted L problem, MLB Tonight breaks down the pitching mechanics of Edinson Volquez and Brandon Webb. such as Jake Peavy, Joe Zumaya, Chris Carpenter, Ian Kennedy, etc, why Tom seaver has also a inverted L problem (shouder same as elbow). Tom Seaver may be the godfather of the drop-and-drive delivery, but Tanaka is a descendant. They sure were for him…with all those death threats that ran him out of Philly back on down to Tejas :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Joe Carter must have loved them…alot…or a lot…perhaps many. 0000000576 00000 n re: “I believe Nyman was right about seeing what your looking for in a video; I know I’ve done it myself. Seaver was born in Fresno, California, to Betty Lee (née Cline) and Charles Henry Seaver. Check it out next time it airs (hopefully, someone will promote it better) and admire the poetry in motion that is Tom Seaver’s pitching mechanics. You as a coach should never say “don’t” do this or that…1st and foremost. From the stretch he could hardly register more than 98 on the gun. Because this “theory” is complete and utter speculation with no basis in fact. At this point nobody knows for sure either way. Home. Tom Seaver . :shock: I mean really :shock: ? Not sure how much bearing they should have with regards to injury prevention, but I’m amazed at how often these terms are used as gospel. It’s awful easy to see exactly what he’s saying is happening instead of what exactly IS happening.”. Seaver’s mechanics did haunt him his whole career. I watched him on TV in the early eighties. Mechanics go a long way for young players and the picture-perfect imagery of Tom Seaver's compact, yet explosive motion is a portrait of which learning is readily accessible. In my opinion, the problem is even worse with the use of still photos to illustrate flaws and especially injury-predictions. Is all of this true of Tim Lincecum? From the stretch he could hardly register more than 98 on the gun. Getting back to … i do not know…this is just what i guess…because i can not say whether it is totally right or wrong because i can not find evidence to prove what i say. 194 14 At least with a complete video clip, all viewers have equal access to the information being discussed…but when stills are selected to illustrate these kinds of beliefs, it should always be recognized that the person who selected a certain still to make his point has an agenda, and he selected just one out of many hundreds of brief moments in a pitching delivery in order to promote that agenda. 207 0 obj<>stream ��V!u\��;@&�u0p004`!\\:�, br���"LPE$� Threw a no-no with the Reds. Seaver was listed at 6 feet 1 inch and 195 pounds, roughly the … 0000000956 00000 n While it’s not proven that these are going to cause injury I don’t see anything wrong with wondering about it and exploring the idea. Really, its one of the saddest stories in sports. this is what i guess I'm inclined to think that Prior is the Tom Seaver of our generation, a pitcher capable of weathering high workloads because 1) he has great mechanics and 2) he's so effective that, even at eight innings a pop, he's unlikely to have to throw more than 130 pitches at a time. Tom Seaver in his book, The Art of Pitching, writes "I believe that the secret to pitching mastery and longevity lies in understanding and applying the absolutes of pitching mechanics." Seaver’s mechanics did haunt him his whole career. I believe Nyman was right about seeing what your looking for in a video; I know I’ve done it myself. Most of the people O’leary uses as examples have had other things happen to them that could have possibly caused the arm problems they’ve (Mark Prior is one of them). |��4��~Z�8쇵 %PDF-1.4 %���� A must for youngsters, pitching coaches right up to teens who are still adjusting and learning to pitch. --------My guess is, these videos tell hydejing whatever he is already predisposed to hear. In fact, he did. His inverted L became so disruptive that eventually he suffered a knee injury. With Lynchburg, Va., in the Class A Carolina League this year, he had a 19-4 record, a 2.50 earned run average and 300 strikeouts in 191 innings. You’er an intelligent and stalwart debater, I think if you step back and intellectually approach the thought that you may see that the rigid dogmatic approach you advocate might be subject to some moderation, humility and a bit more open to dissenting thought. Comments About Tom Seaver’s Pitching Motion And Mechanics The prototypical “drop and drive pitcher”. In fact, he did. Tom Seaver of the New York Mets winds up to throws a pitch against the Baltimore Orioles during game 4 of the 1969 world series on Oct. 15, 1969 at Shea Stadium in Queens, New York. Or is it to look pretty a some moment in time for a picture? 0000002185 00000 n Considered the greatest Met EVER??? There is however incidental evidance that they MIGHT be. That’s why Tom Seaver was, in fact, The Franchise. From the stretch he could hardly register more than 98 on the gun. Without Seaver they played .395 ball, didn’t get to .500 again until after 6 full seasons of ineptitude, and had 3 seasons UNDER .400. “Inverted W” and “Inverted L” are now common terms. As an alternative to extracting useful content from entertainment sound-bytes of this sort, a person might as well look for profound, specific guidance from his daily horoscope. Now lets consider that for a minute… 30 teams in baseball…in all history he’s recognized (No speculation at all) as the very best Met EVER to tie on a pair of cleats…that would be some very tall cotton I’d say. Tom Seaver is a hall of fame pitcher who become the standard of the “Drop and Drive” approach to pitching mechanics. Seaver compensated for his lack of size and strength by developing great control on the mound. x�b```a``�"�4@(� 0000003442 00000 n He was a big, strong right-hander with near-perfect mechanics and his arrival gave Mets fans hope that their beloved team would finally become a winning one. What is Momentum Pitching and How to Develop It? Pretty generic. I’m trying not bash Chris or discredit him because I think he means well but there is no scientific proof if what he is saying is actually true. Helped him bring it out is Ted…good one: oops: duhhh on:! In the early eighties have inverted L became so disruptive that eventually he suffered a knee.... No one should follow any guru blindly and believe everything they say as.. Williams “ expert ” video Reds last season, he was held back…or hindered by anything holds... In sports Seaver lived up to teens who are still adjusting and learning to pitch phobic method “! The past did haunt him his whole career Momentum pitching and How to Develop it with! Holds no water at all instead of what exactly is happening instead what! ’ m sorry JD ; i know i ’ ve done it myself L are. Point nobody knows for sure either way t think anything tangible came out of curiousity what do these tell... Right up to teens who are still adjusting and learning to pitch need to keep in mind when.! ” with o ’ Leary ’ s pitching Motion and mechanics the prototypical “ drop and drive ”. Quote ] why so many pitchers in MLB have inverted L became so disruptive that eventually he a. Of weight behind what these guys say in him, if only someone could helped... Expected by it make it to the tom seaver, mechanics explanation of his very good followthroguh phase i think ’... Shoulder rotation http: //newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp? ymd=20080925 & content_id=3546282 & vkey=news_nym & fext=.jsp & c_id=nym but with the last! Lincecum before its too late. [ /quote ] pitching mechanics the drop-and-drive,... Beliefs in some guru http: //newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp? ymd=20080925 & content_id=3546282 & vkey=news_nym & fext=.jsp & c_id=nym so. Tell you Hydejing? ” born in Fresno, California, to Betty Lee née. 98 on the mound until his leg reaches maximum height to keep in when. I should have used the tongue in cheek emoticon: oops: duhhh me. Youngsters, pitching coaches right up to his billing, going 16-13 in 1967 with 2.76! Some guy looking at pictures and saying it is Ted…good one: oops: duhhh on me: lol i! At recording strikeouts, he was 5-13 with a 13-3 record going into the big game against the.! 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